Thanks so much for sharing a bit about your edge walking. It feels profoundly important to understand new perspectives from the borders if mental health services are to regain relevance.
OK this is what I noticed in my brief sojourn in the "peer" world, the drawbacks that is.
People who have spent many years in "the system," have eked out a reasonable recovery and desire to give back, sometimes have unconscious revenge fantasies.
With some responsibility and power, the bullied becomes the bully, the feeling that years of oppression and thwartedness can now be remedied by a renewed respect for officiousness.
In the peer world, as in the 12 Step world, the medication harm/deprescription space, you will find from time to time people who have definitely been through it, survived with courage and resilience, but one of the main engines of their endurance was brute grandiosity.
Now suddenly they're sagacious grifters, gurus with a saviour complex, with their copyrighted, reductive, absolutist "method" and a gaggle of true believers.
Sasha, I'm very grateful that you are an eloquent and creative thinker and a wonderful writer. I will join paid subscription again after I send this comment. I guess when I joined it wasn't automatically renewed?? you touch on so many really critical issues but I find some of them unclear -"practicing accountability rather than performing certainty". I hope someday you elaborate on what performing certainty means, it seems it could be interpreted different ways. And I felt this way about a number of your points, that is, they felt a little cloudy and I was wanting more clarity. A separate issue, your use of the term containing can also be misinterpreted especially in our highly oppressive healthcare environment. For example I think of containment like the edge of the lake contains the lake, it's flexible, adaptable, appropriate to the needs of the lake. Lastly, I'm curious about how wide your audience is because I think it needs to be a lot wider than it is now. I'm going to pass your contact info to a number of people. I wonder if you've considered putting your thoughts into a book format or ... Maybe we will connect and brainstorm some ideas. Very respectfully, Lauren Spiro
Lauren, thank you so much for this generous and careful response. I really appreciate both the support and the way you’re engaging the ideas—not just agreeing with them, but wrestling with the places that feel unclear or open-ended. That kind of reading means a lot to me.
You’re right to name the ambiguity in phrases like “practicing accountability rather than performing certainty.” I used that language deliberately, but I also see how it can land as cloudy without further unpacking. What I’m gesturing toward is the difference between signaling confidence or coherence as a kind of authority-performance, versus staying in relationship with uncertainty, limits, and feedback in real time. That’s something I want to elaborate on more clearly in future writing, and your question helps sharpen that intention.
I’m also grateful for your reflection on the word containment. I share your concern about how easily that term can be co-opted or misread in oppressive systems. I love your image of the lake and its edge—flexible, responsive, shaped by the water rather than imposed on it. That’s much closer to what I’m trying to name than anything rigid or controlling, and it’s a metaphor I may borrow (with credit) as I keep working with the idea.
As for audience and format: yes, I think about that a lot. I feel both the urgency for these conversations to travel further, and a pull to let them grow at the pace they need to, in relationship rather than acceleration. I'm working on a book: https://microcosmpublishing.com/catalog/books/12238 but the truth is I just haven't figured out how to crack the substack nut. I see all these people on here who have 1000s of readers, I am not one of them. I’d really welcome the chance to connect and brainstorm when the timing feels right.
Thank you again—for your support, your questions, and for wanting to help this work find wider ground. It means more than I can easily say. I hope you are well, it's been a long time!
Yes! "Those of us who work at the edge need more structure, not less." I would have fought you on this when I was 25, but having tried the ways of less structure and more structure, I too have found more structure to be vital.
What I find is that the kinds of structures you talk about keep me as an edgewalker aware of where I am supposed to be, of what I have agreed to focus my energy on. Without structure I am easily distracted by moments of intensity that may be deeply engaging in the moment, but that often do not lead to anything truly helpful or useful.
This piece is one I will share with friends and colleagues who still distrust structure. Thank you!
Thanks so much for sharing a bit about your edge walking. It feels profoundly important to understand new perspectives from the borders if mental health services are to regain relevance.
OK this is what I noticed in my brief sojourn in the "peer" world, the drawbacks that is.
People who have spent many years in "the system," have eked out a reasonable recovery and desire to give back, sometimes have unconscious revenge fantasies.
With some responsibility and power, the bullied becomes the bully, the feeling that years of oppression and thwartedness can now be remedied by a renewed respect for officiousness.
In the peer world, as in the 12 Step world, the medication harm/deprescription space, you will find from time to time people who have definitely been through it, survived with courage and resilience, but one of the main engines of their endurance was brute grandiosity.
Now suddenly they're sagacious grifters, gurus with a saviour complex, with their copyrighted, reductive, absolutist "method" and a gaggle of true believers.
Sasha, I'm very grateful that you are an eloquent and creative thinker and a wonderful writer. I will join paid subscription again after I send this comment. I guess when I joined it wasn't automatically renewed?? you touch on so many really critical issues but I find some of them unclear -"practicing accountability rather than performing certainty". I hope someday you elaborate on what performing certainty means, it seems it could be interpreted different ways. And I felt this way about a number of your points, that is, they felt a little cloudy and I was wanting more clarity. A separate issue, your use of the term containing can also be misinterpreted especially in our highly oppressive healthcare environment. For example I think of containment like the edge of the lake contains the lake, it's flexible, adaptable, appropriate to the needs of the lake. Lastly, I'm curious about how wide your audience is because I think it needs to be a lot wider than it is now. I'm going to pass your contact info to a number of people. I wonder if you've considered putting your thoughts into a book format or ... Maybe we will connect and brainstorm some ideas. Very respectfully, Lauren Spiro
Lauren, thank you so much for this generous and careful response. I really appreciate both the support and the way you’re engaging the ideas—not just agreeing with them, but wrestling with the places that feel unclear or open-ended. That kind of reading means a lot to me.
You’re right to name the ambiguity in phrases like “practicing accountability rather than performing certainty.” I used that language deliberately, but I also see how it can land as cloudy without further unpacking. What I’m gesturing toward is the difference between signaling confidence or coherence as a kind of authority-performance, versus staying in relationship with uncertainty, limits, and feedback in real time. That’s something I want to elaborate on more clearly in future writing, and your question helps sharpen that intention.
I’m also grateful for your reflection on the word containment. I share your concern about how easily that term can be co-opted or misread in oppressive systems. I love your image of the lake and its edge—flexible, responsive, shaped by the water rather than imposed on it. That’s much closer to what I’m trying to name than anything rigid or controlling, and it’s a metaphor I may borrow (with credit) as I keep working with the idea.
As for audience and format: yes, I think about that a lot. I feel both the urgency for these conversations to travel further, and a pull to let them grow at the pace they need to, in relationship rather than acceleration. I'm working on a book: https://microcosmpublishing.com/catalog/books/12238 but the truth is I just haven't figured out how to crack the substack nut. I see all these people on here who have 1000s of readers, I am not one of them. I’d really welcome the chance to connect and brainstorm when the timing feels right.
Thank you again—for your support, your questions, and for wanting to help this work find wider ground. It means more than I can easily say. I hope you are well, it's been a long time!
Warmly,
Sascha
❤️🙌🙏 thank you! Rings so true
Yes! "Those of us who work at the edge need more structure, not less." I would have fought you on this when I was 25, but having tried the ways of less structure and more structure, I too have found more structure to be vital.
What I find is that the kinds of structures you talk about keep me as an edgewalker aware of where I am supposed to be, of what I have agreed to focus my energy on. Without structure I am easily distracted by moments of intensity that may be deeply engaging in the moment, but that often do not lead to anything truly helpful or useful.
This piece is one I will share with friends and colleagues who still distrust structure. Thank you!